Metagame - SV RU Metagame Discussion (Iron Leaves banned, see post #230) (2024)

TW// gaming

Alrighty gamers. It's currently midnight where I am, so this post'll probably not be too up-to-snuff in terms of readability and general comprehensiveness (and probably won't get it's point across) but let me lock in here for a bit. I don't really like the RU metagame right now and I haven't really had any fun ever since the Zarude ban. Now don't take this the wrong way- Zarude absolutely deserved it and that thing was absolutely horrid to fight against. But ever since then, I haven't really been able to build or grasp anything regarding the RU metagame. Only until recently have I been able to have a tiny foothold, but even then I still get goobed every 3 outta 5 games. I think the issue, while definitely a skill issue on my end, also lies in the metagame and how it's kinda... deteriorated in my eyes. I think the underlying issue that has plagued the metagame is an issue of too much pressure and too many good pokemon. I've seen the posts, I've seen the VRs, I really should join the discord sometime, but despite building around what is apparently the top of the top, I always seem to have some defensive issue in my team. There are honestly too little defensive answers, and just a large amount of viable threats. Like let me break it down a bit so I can do more than just talk about how bad I am at this game:

This first part is just a brief explanation of how I see how the tier is, if that makes sense. A short analysis of how things work out in my mind.

THE FAIRYS
Metagame - SV RU Metagame Discussion (Iron Leaves banned, see post #230) (1) Metagame - SV RU Metagame Discussion (Iron Leaves banned, see post #230) (2)

The latter, Enam-T has been a hot point of contention in this thread for the past 3 months, and honestly it always just seems right on the edge of being suspected. And it's the first of many set-up wincons in this tier. Enam's main claim to fame is clicking calm mind twice and winning with unresisted coverage. Pretty easy to see why you would try to build around an Enam endgame... Is what I would say if the stupid thing wasn't MIA for like 100+ games in a row before 6-0ing me on turn 13. But regardless, something that I try to build around.

Gardevoir, on the other hand is really solid, but not broken. Her claim to fame is being able to kill Cyclizar really well. This wouldn't be too much of an issue, if Cyclizar wasn't on 60% of all teams. But why is Cyclizar on every team every? Well...

THE GHOSTS
Metagame - SV RU Metagame Discussion (Iron Leaves banned, see post #230) (3) Metagame - SV RU Metagame Discussion (Iron Leaves banned, see post #230) (4) Metagame - SV RU Metagame Discussion (Iron Leaves banned, see post #230) (5) (imagine this was white-striped it's 12:22 and I couldn't figure out how to make it female)
(Update: it's 1:40, I'm done with the post and I'm genuinely confused on why pmd/basculegion-female doesn't work; why is none of this documented anywhere on this website)

Actually insane pokemon just overall.
Gengar is insane because of a really fast speed stat, nasty plot, scarf, and a generally really, REALLY good movepool. Consumes weakened balance teams for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Luckily, every balance team has Cyclizar! ...who still ends up on the back foot no matter the set, because Cyclizar needs hazard support or 252 atk to OHKO gengar. And if the Gengar is choice scarf, you either get stuck with taking 63% on Cyclizar, or get tricked a choice scarf and die to any mildly strong neutral special attack. Regardless, you kinda need Cyclizar to be able to handle this guy.

Zoroark Hisui. Zoroark Hisui. Where do I even begin.
Lets see what Zoro-H can accomplish. Zoro-H can: disguise itself as any Pokemon on the opposing team and pick up KO's it has no right getting, forcing insane defensive play on the opponent's end that can be easily taken advantage of. You HAVE to assume that every Pokemon they send out is a Zoro if you see it in team preview because whoops! You made the *assumed* that you were in a good position, and now your key defensive piece took 84% from Hyper Voice! And sometimes it's the other way around, where you switch your special wall into what you *think* is a Zoroark and suddenly you realize that no, it really was a Barraskewda and suddenly your key defensive piece took 84%!
You see the pattern right? Zoro-H forces really annoying 50/50 scenarios where you have to guess at what's real and whats not, and that's just with choice specs. It can run nasty plot too, and at that point if you don't have a scarfer or supremely bulky special wall you are actually well and truly done.
However, there is a silver-lining: Cyclizar! It can switch right into a Hyper Voice, take 64%, and then OHKO Zoro-H with knock off! ...That is if you guess correctly and they don't just... switch out.

Basc-F I'm just gonna go over quickly, but Cyclizar is more of an emergency answer to Basc when it's not under rain. Regardless, for most teams, this is all they have and all they're gonna be able to fit.

But you see the issue right? To be able to deal with these super powered ghost threats, you gotta run Cyclizar. Buuuuuut, you have to realize: You are running Cyclizar, a frail Normal/Dragon type. Regenerator be damned if you get OHKO'd. This is the issue I have- even if you were to build around just these threats, you still have to really finagle and scrounge for stuff to be able to have a decent defensive answer. And Cyclizar is really easy to play around, something I'll elaborate further below

So, you slap together your balance team, and you're feeling great. You have a positive matchup into these 5 or so mons, and you have the standard balance cores that have served you well.

now get 6-0'd by every other pokemon in the tier bozo should of been prepared for:

Araquanid, WP Armarogue, Expert Belt Azelf, CB Barraskewda, SD Bisharp,
Shell Smash Tera-Grass Blastoise, Shell Smash Tera-Electric Blastoise, Shell Smash Tera-Ghost Blastoise,
CB Crawdaunt, CM Tera-Poison Cresselia,
CB Entei, Tera Electric Iron Leaves, Tera Fire Iron Leaves, Maushold In General, Offensive Moltres, (this has killed me two times this past week and that's honestly way too many times)
Meteor Beam Necrozma, Trick Room Meteor Beam Necrozma, DD Necrozma, DD+WP Necrozma, Okidogi,
Rain and all the bullsh*t it's got, Lum Berry Revavroom, Air Balloon Revavroom, Tera Fire Revavroom,
Tera Flying Revavroom, Tera Ground Revavroom, Special Salamence, Mixed Salamence, DD Salamence, DD Salamence with Tera Steel,

Thundurus-Therian, Choice Specs Thundurus-Therian, Agility Thundurus-Therian, Double Dance Thundurus-Therian, T-Blast Flying Thundurus-Therian, T-Blast Ice Thundurus-Therian, (gotten slapped by it pretty often weirdly enough) Thundurus-Therian Again But Shiny,

Volcanion, Yanmega, CB Gapdos, Choice-Scarf Gapdos, Choice-Scarf Chandelure, (low ladder being low ladder but still) Feraligatr, Reuniclus,
Slowbro, Glowbro, (guess it's set, you won't. and you can't until it's too late.), and finally, Krookodile

And if you're really having a bad day, Hitmonchan, Sandslash-A, and Sableye.

I know those last 3 (and azelf, he's mid af tbh) were just funny meme picks, but come on man. All of these minus Moltres are things that you can reasonably expect to have to play against at some point. All of these I've seen be used by and against me, and honestly what are you supposed to do? All of these chew through Balance teams, and fat teams too for that matter.
At this point, I can honestly say that on one hand, it's very much a skill issue. My style of teambuilding really just doesn't meld well with this meta, but on the other hand...

bah! there is no other hand!

There are honestly so many things that you have to look at and build around in the teambuilder, and so many things that can viably be run with good enough team support that, going back to the whole "Since Zarude" thing, I haven't been able to grasp, and still have no idea what the meta even is. I can vaguely guess at "Oh, Enam-T, Thundurus-T, Revavroom, Blastoise, and Iron Leaves are good, I should prepare to encounter those types of mons" But just trying to build against that list of mons is hard, with the remaining holes being patched up with NU/ZU mons and desperate tera types. The issue then arises that sometimes you just lose at team preview because I prepared to deal with mons A, B, and C, but never expected mon's F and G.
So TLDR for this point, too many things that you can lose to that you have to try and prepare for in 6 measly team slots.

Just trying to not ramble on this point a bit longer, there's also the issue of set-up sweepers.

A large, LARGE majority of the mons that I listed above are set up sweepers, and I swear when positioned mildly well they feel absolutely unstoppable. Blastoise is a good example, being able to set up on anything without priority that can't OHKO it before or after it clicks the funny move. And from there, it kinda has free rein to absolutely decimate you with or without tera. And with it, it gains the funny unresisted coverage that you can't do anything about because Blastoise outspeeds everything after a shell smash and kills everything at +2.

So you'd better be running priority, and yeah you'd win in THAT game, but next game you match up against a Zoroark-H and give it free entry points, or you match up against farigaraf and lose somehow, and you get the picture.
It's kinda... impossible to prepare for everything at once, and impossible to blanket check things too because aside from Cyclizar, everything in this god damn tier has the special bulk of a wet paper towel and anything that can stomach special hits either can't do it without taking hazard chip or doesn't have reliable recovery so it just gets 3HKO'd at the cost of all your momentum and a team slot. And Chansey doesn't count, that's a stall exclusive, that's Flamingo's territory.

One thing that I want to bring up is just... how easily you can take advantage of defensive pokemon in this meta. Cyclizar is both a liability and necessity because on one hand, you don't lose everything to the ghost types, but on the other hand almost every body and their grandma is finding new and exciting ways to OHKO cyclizar or take advantage of it. Empoleon looks good on the surface as a good special wall with recovery... until it gets exploited by like everyone or, once again, OHKO'd. People have found out that Hippowdon, despite being a good physical wall, does not wall special attackers, and Fezendipiti, while being decent, honestly kinda sucks and manages to find new and exciting ways to lose by itself without people actively trying to beat it.

I'm sure that at top level play, with the Feliburns and Master Chiefs, they've got the meta on lock and they understand the ins and outs of the tier, and run Registeel on every team or something, but I'm no Ampha, I'm no Dracopope. Again, most likely a skill issue, but despite all my attempts at learning the tier, despite all my attempts at trying to understand what I need to work around, I've been forced into the conclusion (by ladder mostly, that honestly might be the reason for my issues) that I can't make anything work, and that no matter what I try, I'm always just going to lose to FreeMelee2521's DD Mew wincon or femhwfiu3d's Shell Smash Minor that I lost to on team preview.

TLDR, too many threats, too few defensive answers, and a really aggressive metagame making it really hard to get a grasp on what exactly I'm doing wrong and where I need to improve, and what I need to prepare for. (i don't even know if it's aggressive tbh i'm that lost)

Them's be my thoughts on the tier, and what I've observed in these past 3 months
Thank you for reading, and I beg of you, PLEASE tear this post apart. Tell me I'm an idiot, tell me I should be doing X, I kinda need criticism (preferably constructive) at the moment, and I'd be really interested to see if I'm right by any stretch of the imagination or just an old geezer who got lost back at Hippo Molt Cyclizar cores 2 months ago.

Goodnight, and I'll be loading up an all Choice Items team after this to drown my sorrows.
(update: i won lol https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ru-2113823651)
(I put zero thought into that and it still preformed better than stuff I checked speed tiers and ran calcs on)
Meloetta for RU. Metagame - SV RU Metagame Discussion (Iron Leaves banned, see post #230) (6)

Metagame - SV RU Metagame Discussion (Iron Leaves banned, see post #230) (2024)
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